galadhir | Thinking about Murderbot

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Thinking about Murderbot

So I bought the latest Murderbot book, System Collapse as soon as it came out, on both audiobook and ebook, and I have to say that I was ever so slightly disappointed. It is a really good example of a Murderbot novella, just like the other ones in the series, but my problem is that with it coming after Network Effect I was hoping for other things.

When Network Effect finished with ART excitedly cleaning its interior because Dr. Mensah would be coming aboard, I was excited to be able to read about ART and Mensah meeting and learning to appreciate each other.

When we got the blurb for System Collapse and it became obvious that SecUnit was having something of a breakdown due to accumulated trauma, while Barish Estranza was up to its corporate worst, I was excited at the thought that Three might have to take over some of SecUnit's more running-about-and-murdering-people duties, while SecUnit had to take the trauma treatment.

I wanted to see how the Preservation humans and ART's crew got along. Which I guess happened with Ratthi and Tarik. But I suppose I had got used to the extra space and slightly more leisurely pace of the novel, and was not prepared to go back to the tight focus of a novella.

This is all entirely my fault for having expectations, rather than just trying to enjoy what I got for its own sake. And in fact I remember feeling a little disappointed with Network Effect when that came out, while now it is my favourite in the series. So I'm sure after a few more reads and listens I will also learn to appreciate System Collapse for what it is, instead of what it isn't.

And let's face it, SecUnit was due a collapse! And now I'm eager to find out if Three gets a starship of its own with Holism. I like the fact that they are the serious non-fiction nerds of the series, while Perihelion and SecUnit are the sci-fi geeks. Bless!

Also I'm excited (and a little nervous) at the thought of a Murderbot TV series.

I'm excited because

you can do so much with a series in which a SecUnit is the pov character - think about how you could tell a story from the perspective of a being who is regularly experiencing life through security cameras and flying drones and
I'm not sure I can think of another series with a protag like SecUnit, who avoids eye contact, expresses emotional discomfort by turning and facing the wall, is extremely touch averse, and above all is agender and asexual and quite vocal about that.
When have we ever had a tv series where the main character's pronouns are 'it'? If they only keep that, the series will be revolutionary.

But I'm nervous because

Look at the guy they cast as SecUnit. Did he have to be so white? MB lives in a universe where most of the important characters are black or various shades of brown. It kind of defeats the importance of having so many important characters of colour if they're mostly there in order to be rescued by a white main character.
The show runners are both male. It would be so easy for a pair of straight cis male writers to ignore the widespread queerness of the setting and all the things most queer/non-neurotypical readers find so endearing about SecUnit and turn it into yet another male power fantasy where a heavily armed and deadly cyborg solves everyone's problems with ultra-violence.
It would be so easy for them to call SecUnit 'he' and churn out something like Robocop or Judge Dredd where the uncommunicative white guy with a heart of gold and a big gun gets to be the hero again. That would make it more marketable. It would make it more relatable to the straight cis white guys who make up the desired audience for SF shows (or so I've heard.) And it would take away from this agender asexual person someone who was very rare and precious to them.

Honestly listening to cis people talking about Murderbot is painful enough now when they must have read the book and they must have been bombarded for thousands of words with instances of it being called 'it' and insisting that gender was inapplicable to it and it found sex distasteful. Somehow even after all of that they will insist on calling it 'he' or 'she.' God knows how much worse it could get if the TV series did it too.

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I skimmed the bit about the novella because I haven't read it yet (it's on the Christmas list, ha), though Taylor read me the first couple chapters when I visited them last week.

BUT.

My concerns about the show are very much the same. :/ I would definitely have hoped for a less white casting choice, for exactly the reasons you said.

I also worry that the showrunners will be more interested in leaning into it being more of a power fantasy than the neurotic mess that is the Murderbot I know and love. And if they decide to give Murderbot a gender I'm going to be so fucking angry, ha. But it does seem like it would be distressingly easy to do so in order to tone down the queerness and give it a broader appeal. :/

I don't think I've got any spoilers in my rant :) (It's mostly about what I hoped it might be that it wasn't, rather than what it actually was. But I suppose that's a spoiler too in its own way.

And yeah, I hadn't really stopped to think what the Murderbot Diaries might look like to people outside the queer/non-neurotypical community. We all tend to focus on Murderbot's relatable autistic traits and pronouns and the fact that the world is a very queer one, (and also the anti-slavery, anti-corporate themes.) But it suddenly occurred to me with a sinking feeling that that was probably not what the regular straight cis reader was seeing.

I have read a number of reviews from straight women too, who seem to think of MB as a desirable character who would come and rescue them, which is also an unfortunately more marketable pov than ours. But I admit to being impressed at how much MB appeals to absolutely everyone for various different reasons.

I wonder if there are any restrictions in the licence relating to personal pronouns?

They are retaining Martha Wells as some kind of executive producer, so perhaps that might mean she has the power to veto certain things? I hope so!

That sounds very hopeful.

Yes, my fingers are crossed :)

Yeah... some of the things that seem very obvious to me about Murderbot (as a series and as a character) likely ISN'T as obvious to some people. The idea that the ultimate culmination of Murderbot's character arc should be it "choosing a gender" is nails on a chalkboard to me... but for someone utterly outside the queer community, for whom gender is a firm, necessary binary... yeah, they may view it differently. I think they're missing a HUGE part of Murderbot's characterization, and should give it more thought, but... that's not what some people are there for.

Same with the anti-corporate, anti-exploitation, anti-slavery themes. They're obvious, I think, but I'm sure some people view those themes more as... background set-dressing than core components of the series, and some of those themes could easily be glossed over or defanged if it seemed to make for an easier story to tell.

I can't say I'm sad that people enjoy the series, even if they enjoy it differently than I do... but it is a little weird when some of it feels like they're coming away with the exact opposite impressions than I do!

Yeah, even on Tumblr half the time the people in the murderbot tag are calling it 'he' or 'she' or even 'they.' And if people on Tumblr can't get their heads around it, it's not surprising that completely ignorant cis people also have a problem. But of course if they don't include things like the importance to MB that it is an object, and not human - its revulsion, in fact, of the thought of being human, then it will really lose so much of what makes the series unique and fun.

It could so easily be defanged, as you say, and that would be so disappointing. But I'm going to continue hoping that it will be a good adaptation just out of sheer bloodymindedness :)

I also want to be optimistic about the series turning out well, even if I am so far skeptical. I wish they'd cast someone less white, but I still want to see how everything else turns out!

Apparently whatever his name is who is cast as MB really pushed for it and is behind the series getting an adaptation at all, so I'll hope that he's a genuine fan, and I won't start being dismayed until we hear more about the rest of the casting :)

That is encouraging! And I've seen that he has some interviews and things where he's talked about pushing against ideas of toxic masculinity and playing with gender expression and things. While it's still unfortunately white casting, I am really hopeful that his apparent excitement makes the role work!

Oh interesting! I must see if I can look those up because that sounds very encouraging. Maybe he's one of us. Things are almost always better when there is a fan of the books involved.

I of course didn't save any of the links, which came up at random on FB! It is at least encouraging, as is hearing that he's apparently a fan of the series. Having the cast be fans of something can really do a lot to improve a series, so I'll continue hoping for the best!

Oh, could it have been this one on the Mary Sue?

They say "...it seems Skarsgård enjoys challenging traditional notions of masculanity. Not only did his role in The Northman take on traditional notions of masculanity, but he’s also on record saying that he can’t stand toxic masculinity and hates “alpha dudes” who act like “Silverback Gorillas.”

Which is indeed encouraging.

I'm a little disappointed at the Mary Sue thinking that the reason fans are upset is with the casting of a cis man as an agender person - honestly agender people can look like anything! Afaik the main reason fans are really upset is the casting of a white man to play someone who has never been described and could therefore easily have been played by a poc. It's nice that people are standing up for agender folks, but honestly you don't need a special look for that.

I think that was at least one of the articles I saw! That definitely sounds like the quote I was thinking of.

Though agreed - my issue is way more with the *whiteness* of the casting rather than the *masculinity* of the casting. Like yeah, having an nb or agender actor in the role would be cool! But gender expression isn't a specific "look" that I would expect for the character, whereas it's such an overwhelmingly NONwhite world, having the protag be white feels unfortunate.

Though still! I'm planning to see how it actually shakes out!

(And even if it winds up not being a great adaptation... I'm still thrilled for Martha Wells - I know that getting a movie or a tv deal can represent SO MUCH in terms of things like royalties and the like, and her work deserves it.)

having an nb or agender actor in the role would be cool! But gender expression isn't a specific > "look" that I would expect for the character, whereas it's such an overwhelmingly NONwhite world, > having the protag be white feels unfortunate.

Yes, that's it exactly! OTOH it may help sneak the program past a lot of dudebros who would not have given it a chance before. And you're right that it's a great thing for Martha Wells, particularly if she is having to pay for cancer treatments atm. I hope it is a success just for that.

That is also true! The Trojan Horse approach, lol. WE WILL TRICK YOU INTO WATCHING THIS, DAMMIT.

And yes, especially considering the crappy health stuff going on, she deserves all the successes.

I'm straight and cis-gendered, but I like Murderbot just as it is.

This is very true, you don't have to share a gender or a sexuality with a character to be able to identify with it. We can hope that's true of the actor as well :)

I've mentioned this in other places, but my head-canon for Murderbot's appearance has always been white male. Mostly because I figure that the exact kind of morally bankrupt people who would even build SecUnits would use them to fulfill their own power fantasies and so build them to look like themselves - only with more muscles.

And you are correct that there's nothing saying the builders would be white or even male - but in my universe they tend to be, so that's how I think of them.

So they could use Murderbot's gender and appearance to really emphasize that messed up power fantasy aspect - or as you say they could turn it into an action hero and mess up the whole character.

Ooh, that's a corporate dystopian take that hadn't occurred to me and now seems very plausible! I had the impression from the fact that most of the authority figures in the series - Mensah the planetary leader, Seth, ART's captain, Iris, ART's important person, even Leonide - are all people of colour, that it was a society that had got past prejudice on the basis of colour. (And also sexuality and gender.) But the idea that it's still lurking there in maybe the creation of SecUnits as some kind of perfect white army of cops is very chilling.

It may be that they thought it would be less fraught to explore the slavery aspects with a character who was white. At least I hope they will be exploring the slavery aspect of it instead of the robocop side :)

I always found Murderbot so relatable, it always throws me off when people defaults to "he" to talk about it because that is so not how I see it, haha.

I'm glad the TV show will give even more visibility to the books, and not holding my breath for much else (mostly because I haven't been able to watch much TV the last few years so I probably won't be able to watch it regardless of how good it may or may not be). Either way, I'm hopeful there'll be enough good material for interesting fanvids :D

It really is relatable! Although the genius of the character is that it's relatable to so many different kinds of people. I don't really mind if it's a power fantasy as long as it's also acknowledging all the other complexities of the character. (After all ace people also need power fantasies!)

But as you say, it will be extra cool to have all the media input. Gifs and vids and so on. And lots of new people being introduced to the books. (Which may drag ace and autistic and nb representation closer to the mainstream anyway.)

I am crossing my fingers hard for the series - I really want MB to be its book self, and I'm curious how a narrative that relies so much on first person voice will be turned into something we see from the outside.

I think a TV series would have to rely heavily on voice-overs to give any real feel for Murderbot.

But it could be real fun to see what they do with Sanctuary Moon!

Absolutely! And I think there would have to be a lot of split screen work to take in what the drones were seeing and all the times MB is watching Sanctuary Moon in the background, and when it's running code etc. But yes, I love that episode of Stargate where they have Wormhole Xtreme, and I'd love to know all about the Colony's Solicitor's bodyguard and their baby :)

Yeah, I do think a voiceover is a good idea. And also I'd love it if they had separate screens for what the drones are up to, and the conversations MB is having with various security systems, and whatever media it's watching in the feed up in a little minimized window on one side.

Oh yes, lots of little boxes on screen. Maybe the Sanctuary Moon box gets bigger when Murderbot is paying it more attention!

Yes! Everything swapping in and out to indicate where it's giving most of its attention right now. Maybe even with a proper little sub-story in the Sanctuary Moon parts so the audience also wanted to know the resolution to that plot thread before the end :)

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Thinking about Murderbot

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