galadhir | (no subject)

Ugh! Got a comment today on a fic which I uploaded to Ao3 two years ago. The fic is actually about 15 years old, since I wrote it for my first fandom and it had been on Stories of Arda before then. But even two years is a gap, when the comment was entirely "You should have done this different," and "it would have been better if you'd done that other thing."

No 'thanks for writing this' or 'I did at least enjoy this part' or even 'I hope you don't mind me saying but if I had been writing this, I would have focused on [whatever] more.' Just 'you did it wrong.'

I was vaguely baffled at how to answer this comment. I mean, my first instinct is that it's very rude to leave a comment that consists in telling me that I should have told my own story in a different way. It wasn't ever meant to be whatever this 15-year-too-late reader thinks it ought to have been.

I admit that I could have wrung a lot more emotion out of it if I'd told it their way. I could totally have ramped it up to the sobbing point. The point is that I didn't want to do that, and therefore I wrote it in a way where I wouldn't have to do that.

IDK it's hard to respond to a comment that is essentially saying "I think this should have been a different story." Because well, you know, fuck off, it isn't.

Ugh, what is a comment like that supposed to achieve? Are they just venting their disappointment that they thought it was going to be one thing and then it wasn't? The comment sounds like it's writing advice but they don't know what I was trying to achieve, and we've never spoken before so I don't know what their assumptions are or indeed where they get off.

I used to be of the opinion that concrit was a good thing, but this is not constructive criticism because 'how to make a story more like what I want' is not the same thing as 'how to make a story good.'

Ugh (again). All this angst over one of my shortest, most throwaway fics. I have (I hope politely) told them that if they don't like it, perhaps they should write their own version themself.

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No, that's indeed no concrit, but quite a rude reader. Either just venting of their frustration about, gosh, not finding exactly what they expected!!!! (the sense of entitlement in that regard some readers have these days is baffling), or some socially super awkward or neurodivergent person not yet having learned how innapropriate it is to leave such feedback (I know this sounds judgy, but I'm saying this as neurodivergent person myself who has been guilty of that sin at times, if only in thought but thankfully not in execution).
Your reply is spot-on IMHO. I'm usually just thanking for leaving feedback to rude commets as I don't want to spend the energy dealing with them, and am mostly not very good with suitably sharp responses, with two exceptions where I was actually upset enough to manage the right kind of sarcasm. *g*

I was torn about how to respond because I couldn't decide if they were just entitled or they were socially awkward and genuinely thought they were helping. I guess I won't find out unless they reply to my reply :) Now that I've got some distance from it, it seems like it's disappointment that the story wasn't told the way they wanted it to be told, and maybe even that they were sufficiently frustrated by it that they ended up thinking about how they would do it - which is great! I hope they do :) It's still taken a lot of work on my end to conquer the whole 'oh no, someone thinks I'm bad!' kneejerk anxiety. But knowing that I'm not at fault for feeling that really helps, thank you!

You're way more polite than me. I probably would have deleted their comment or just ignored it lol.

I got a similar one once on what was then 15-year-old fic, which I had written at 15. The commenter had read most of a 30k(!!!) story I'd posted on ffnet and stopped to comment that they could not continue because X would NEVER and I should be ashamed of writing her as a hussy. It was a really baffling comment bc it's pretty obvious that I was a very young writer when that fic was posted.

Oh no! It does sometimes seem like some people won't say anything unless they can complain. I'm glad you didn't get that comment when you were a 15 year old, at least. It could have put you off writing for years.

I tried to be polite, but I'm a bit afraid that I might only have succeeded at passive aggression :)

That does not sound like concrit at all, they're just projecting their expectations on your innocent story. Uncalled for!

Thank you! I'm glad that I'm not the only one to think so. Fortunately, now that I'm 57, with a professionally published writing career behind me, I'm a little less likely to descend into the pits of "maybe I'm just a terrible writer!" But it was a struggle getting to the point of being cross instead of despairing.

Delete it! No need to let it sit and bother you; and yeah, some people are clearly looking to vent their OpinionTM. That's a them problem and they need find a better way to manage it instead of taking it out on you for not writing a fic to their arbitrary specifications. If it's especially vitriolic I would recommend reporting the comment to AO3 first and then deleting it.

Unfortunately, I'm not very good at being able to take criticism without trying to explain myself, so I did reply, and then they replied to my reply, saying they were sorry that I was upset but they stood by their point. So I replied again and then blocked them. That's two hours a comment and much angst that I won't get back. It definitely wasn't a reportable event, but it had started to seem like one of those conversations you won't get out of without misery all around, or at least without being persuaded that you're a terrible person and a worse writer.

Next time I'll just delete them straight way, I promise! :) I can see now that that would have been easier.

I'm sorry you had to deal with that!

Thank you! I went out and had cake and now my equanimity is restored :)

I mean whatever the relative merits (or lack thereof of) concrit (or less constructive crit) leaving a disparaging comment on a 15-year-old seems kind of pointless. Like it's not like the writer is looking for ways to improve it at that point.
I agree with you that the people who want a different story should go write that story or at least look for that story somewhere else instead of complaining to you about having written a different story.

To be fair to them, I had only put it on Ao3 two years ago, when I thought that FF.net was dying, but even so :) And it's weird because it's one of my most throwaway stories - it's even below 1000K - which hardly anything of mine is. It's very unusual to get a comment on that one at all, let alone one that clearly wanted it rewritten extensively. Thank you!

Well that's charming >:/ I'm sorry they were so rude! What a useless comment!

Thank you! I thought so :)

I try to assume the best about people who post clueless comments. They might be young, socially awkward, or coming from a different part of the Internet, where comments like that are considered acceptable. In any case, I wouldn't let yourself worry about it if it happens to you again in the future. It was awfully nice of you to post a polite response, but a comment that's way out of your comfort zone can be safely ignored. (Unless the comment is threatening, in which case, it needs to be reported.)

Yeah, unfortunately I am afflicted with compulsive 'having to explain myself' disorder, so I had to explain what I was trying to do with the story, and they got back to me today to say they were sorry that I was upset but they stood by their point. And then they made a completely different point. And I replied again and then blocked them. Which is probably more of a dick move than just ignoring the first comment would have been. Next time, I will try the 'just ignore it' tactic instead. It probably would not escalate things so much!

I would say that, at this point, blocking them is probably the kindest you could do, for both your sakes. I've been at the other end of the clueless comment posting, and sadly, sometimes the other person shutting down the conversation abruptly is what I've needed in order to know that I've gone too far.

Oh that's good to know! I did feel slightly guilty about it, but only slightly, as it is only a story and I'm not obligated to give everybody a hearing just because they read a short story I wrote a long time ago. I'm glad you think that it could even be the best thing for them too. I hope so :)

Ugh, that sort of comment is so useless. I never know how to respond to something like that, either. Maybe something along the lines of "well, those ideas would have made it a different story than the one I wrote". But what did they possibly think that would help on a fic a decade and a half old?? Just why??

Exactly! I mean I think I would have been annoyed by it if the story was new, but at least I would have presumably known the person and been in conversation with the fandom at the time so I would have had a sense of where they were coming from. But they've since replied to my reply and I get the sense that they're not reading the story at all carefully - they were surprised when I pointed out whose pov the fic was in. But I write carefully. I expect readers to figure out what I'm implying with certain sentences and sometimes even word choices, and maybe idk, things were missed and they thought it was going to be a different story than they got.

Ugh. Anyway, I've blocked the thread now. I've spent too much time worrying about it.

Oh, that's extra annoying! Or maybe it's a good thing they showed they aren't really paying attention, and their "criticism" is even more easily ignored. ;)
Writers should be able to trust their readers to read what's actually on the page. As you said, you make choices deliberately. This sounds very much like it's on them for a lack of reading comprehension - always frustrating.

I hope they learn to maybe give feedback in a less overwhelmingly negative way next time at least - and yeah, engage with the story that's there instead of the one they're imagining it ought to be. But at least with the block function it should no longer be my problem. Fingers crossed :) (I don't block often, but I'm glad of the option!) Thank you :)

No kidding. That's such an unproductive way to try and talk to someone, especially if it WAS an attempt at any kind of good-faith comment (which I'm not sure it was.)

That's something a lot of people, in fandom and outside of fandom, would do well to keep in mind... sometimes you have to look at the work THAT EXISTS, not the one you made up in your own head. It's more fair when it comes to professional works, if you want to criticize something that you think was wasted potential or something, but like... if your idea fundamentally changes the story being told, then maybe you aren't actually bothering to read what IS there, you know?

Thank goodness for the block button. :)

LOL! Amen to that :)

I got a comment like that on an older fic just a month or so ago. I was very much annoyed, but in the end, decided to ignore it. I have only once responded to a bad comment, and the conversation that ensued was...not exactly unpleasant, but made me very angry, because the commenter apparently decided that I was a new writer when I was, in fact, not. (Actually, just typing all that annoys me all over again and that was years ago.)

LOL! Yes, a conversation ensued from this one too, and I was half way through a polite reply (while gritting my teeth) when I thought 'you know what, this is reminiscent of me trying to explain myself to a person who won't take my words in good faith. I don't want to do that again.' So I posted my explanation and then blocked them. That was probably more of a jerk move than just ignoring them in the first place, but I've got to assert my boundaries somehow. Next time I'll just delete it. That will be less annoyance all around I think.

Sorry to have made you think of it! Thank you :)

Urgh, that's unpleasant. I usually reply to those in one of two enthusiastic ways which is "so cool you're inspired, you should absolutely write this!" or sharing recs for the kind of stories they're looking for if I happen to have read one, haha. But replying positively can take a lot of energy that I don't always have. Sorry your polite answer wasn't taken well, looking at the discussion here - I think you handled it all well, and blocking seems like the right call at this point!

Thank you! It's possible that I flew completely off the handle because I am oversensitive to criticism, but I don't think so. We were clearly not understanding each other at any rate, and I was spending far too long trying to figure out what they were saying, why they were saying it and how to reply. Next time I will just delete the reply without responding, I can see now that that would have saved both of us a lot of annoyance :) I am glad though, to know that it doesn't sound too much like I was being unreasonable. That's reassuring! Thank you :)

>> No 'thanks for writing this' or 'I did at least enjoy this part' or even 'I hope you don't mind me saying but if I had been writing this, I would have focused on [whatever] more.' Just 'you did it wrong.' <<

That sucks.

>> I was vaguely baffled at how to answer this comment. <<

It's often best to ignore those.

>>I mean, my first instinct is that it's very rude to leave a comment that consists in telling me that I should have told my own story in a different way. It wasn't ever meant to be whatever this 15-year-too-late reader thinks it ought to have been.<<

It is rude. Good feedback may include possible improvements, but a lot of fanfic writers don't want constructive criticism and say so in their profile or story header.

>>Ugh, what is a comment like that supposed to achieve? Are they just venting their disappointment that they thought it was going to be one thing and then it wasn't? <<

Two prevailing possibilities:

* More likely, there's a large and growing sector of fandom that seems to exist for the purpose of complaining about things, whether canon or fanfic. They derive as much gratification from that as other folks do from squeeing over cool things.

* Less likely, it could simply be someone who thinks they're being helpful. Especially if they've taken writing classes which teach people poor feedback skills, and that's very common.

>>The comment sounds like it's writing advice but they don't know what I was trying to achieve, and we've never spoken before so I don't know what their assumptions are or indeed where they get off.<<

Yyyyyeah.

I do think that on balance it would have saved us both a lot of stress if I had just ignored it. I'm determined to try that next time :)

I used to think that I was happy with concrit, but now I think it's more complicated than that. I'm very glad to have suggestions from people who are reading the story as it progresses and clearly know what I'm trying to do, who have suggestions for what I could do to improve a story they are already enjoying. And who are also people whose writing I know and admire, so that I trust their opinion.

I'm much less happy to have it out of the blue, unmixed with any sign that the commenter enjoyed anything at all, and expressed in a way that makes me doubt that they understand what I'm trying to do, or even what I did do. Particularly when they're strangers with whom I have no relationship at all, and who have come in swinging.

My personal impression was that the commenter was deriving enjoyment from acting superior - handing down their wisdom to a poor simple writer who clearly needed it. But I could have misinterpreted and it could well be that they were trying to be helpful in a very unhelpful way. I think I can live without knowing :)

>>I do think that on balance it would have saved us both a lot of stress if I had just ignored it. I'm determined to try that next time :)

It takes practice.

>> I used to think that I was happy with concrit, but now I think it's more complicated than that. I'm very glad to have suggestions from people who are reading the story as it progresses and clearly know what I'm trying to do, who have suggestions for what I could do to improve a story they are already enjoying. And who are also people whose writing I know and admire, so that I trust their opinion.<<

There's a big difference between constructive criticism and drive-by bitching. Things that matter:
* whether you know the person
* how well they know your work
* porportion of praise to criticism
* whether you're open to editing the piece.

Me, I rarely edit fanfic. Editing is a lot of work, not fun, and I don't get paid for it. I'll edit things I sell, because I want that to be professional quality. My readers will tell me if they spot a typo, and I try to fix those. I once had someone correct the modern Greek I put in a poem to the Classic Attic Greek appropriate to that context. But fanfic, I don't have time for everything, and editing it is rarely worth my effort. That means I'm less interested in constructive criticism there.

Also, I really don't like people coming in my space and telling me what to do. Especially if they're not paying for the privilege.

So yes, it's complicated, and that's okay.

>>I'm much less happy to have it out of the blue, unmixed with any sign that the commenter enjoyed anything at all, and expressed in a way that makes me doubt that they understand what I'm trying to do, or even what I did do. Particularly when they're strangers with whom I have no relationship at all, and who have come in swinging.<<

Yeah. That's a dick move.

As a reviewer, I try very hard to review the item furnished, not what I wish it had been.

... what I wish it had been that it isn't, is what I get to load into my creative engine to do with as I please. After all, they didn't want it, no point letting it go to waste.

>>My personal impression was that the commenter was deriving enjoyment from acting superior - handing down their wisdom to a poor simple writer who clearly needed it. But I could have misinterpreted and it could well be that they were trying to be helpful in a very unhelpful way. <<

Those would be my guesses in order of probability.

>>I think I can live without knowing :)

Sensible.

Thank you! Yes, I think on those criteria it was definitely a drive by bitching :) (Great phrase!)

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galadhir

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