galadhir: a turquoise narrowboat with a long purple eel on the side sails toward the viewer (Drake Front)
Well, the good news is that it wasn't a very long slump, but the bad news is that this is how long it's taken me to fall off the writing wagon and to no longer be working on my novel. I'm still writing, but I'm back on fanfic, doing a time-travel fix-it fic for Jin Guangyao.

[Guanyin's Gift](https://archiveofourown.org/works/53696275)
With Jin Guangyao the main difficulty is to find a time in which he has any good choices available to him at all. So I had to go very far back *and* allow him to keep his adult memories and skillset.

I'm now belly dancing twice a week, which is lots of fun and has given me a new lease of life. But I continued to be frustrated that you could not get a nice coin belt of the right size for a plus size person, so I've started making them.



This is great for me, because I now have multiple belts that fit me and are interesting and unique. And I would like to make them available to other fat dancers who are presumably all also facing the same problem. But I can't make them as cheaply as the scarves that straight-sized people can buy on the internet for £3.99. £3.99 would not cover even the least amount of braid that goes on one of these, let alone the material.

I can't imagine selling them for less than £15 just to pay for the material and trimmings, and then who's going to pay for that?

On boat news, Son is coming to the end of his mooring in Northampton and is thinking of moving the boat up to Nottingham, where he has a small community of friends. So I imagine we'll be spending at least some time in late spring on the boat - getting him up the 12 locks of the staircase onto the Northampton arm of the canals, if nothing else. Expect more breakdowns, panicking and repairs to follow :)

Date: 2024-02-13 10:31 am (UTC)From: [personal profile] malinaldarose
malinaldarose: (Default)
Those are really pretty! I especially like the second one.

Date: 2024-02-13 01:27 pm (UTC)From: [personal profile] oracne
oracne: turtle (Default)
Your belts look great!

Date: 2024-02-13 10:59 pm (UTC)From: [personal profile] ysilme
ysilme: Embroidery yarn in rainbow colours forming a heart. (Creative rainbow)
Yay for regular and frequent bellydancing and you having fun and a good time with it! ♥ And those belts are awesome! I did a bit of bellydancing about 30 years ago, mainly inspired by a good friend who was in a performance ensemble and then started teaching, and was searching students. I only did half a year or so, but it's been awesome and I managed to un-tigthen the back of my legs as well as my pelvis which stuck and made me a kind of limber in my core I'm profiting from to this day. I'm totally floored by how cheap those belts are, and for how little you want to sell yours. Supply and demand, I suppose; but the one I got back then was second-hand and even then cost over 60 Euros. They were different in style, so perhaps that also affected the price - they didn't have coins but rows and rows of rocaille pearls hanging down in fringes - similar to this one but with shorter fringes. They were quite heavy, too.
But no matter what I knew, I wouldn't think £15 to be a lot for such an item, especially not if it's made not by child labour or badly underpaid people somewhere, and with individual fabric.
Back then I wanted to make a costume for myself and still have the fabric somewhere, as I never managed to get around to it. *ahem* Was suppopsed to consist of a bra with rocaille fringe and puffed Turkish trousers to fit my belt. The bra was a regular one with as wide straps and side-parts as you could get, then line it on the outside with some material so it would be more of an "outer garment" and less underwear, and then cover it with some shiny fabric, suiting appliqués and rocaille fringes.

All the best for the boat endeavour! I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you might be met with the least amount of mishpas possible. ;op

Date: 2024-02-14 04:27 am (UTC)From: [personal profile] mistressofmuses
mistressofmuses: Image of nebulae in the colors of the bi pride flag: pink, purple, and blue (Default)
I'm of the opinion that all writing is good writing, so I'm glad you're not off the wagon entirely!

Those coin belts are lovely! 15 doesn't sound like a terrible price point for me, particularly for something well-made, and I'd hope that people who recognize how hard it is to find nice stuff that fits would find it worth it. (But I also know that people tend to have very skewed ideas of how much textile stuff is worth, because there are so many "cheap" options out there, so often they'll balk at fair prices.) And I can't say I know anything about the belly dance community in particular!

Hopefully the spring boat trip will be light on the breakdowns, panics, and repair needs, ha.

Date: 2024-02-17 04:03 am (UTC)From: [personal profile] mistressofmuses
mistressofmuses: Image of nebulae in the colors of the bi pride flag: pink, purple, and blue (Default)
Covid was... rough. I know so many people who were unable to write for months and years during that stretch. Others were able to write as a sort of distraction, but then fell apart after the height of it, because the stress caught up with them. (Low-key, what I'm worried about for myself.)
I'm REALLY glad that you're writing something and that you're enjoying doing it! That's the best and most important thing! (And if and when you want to write another novel, I hope you're able to... but don't push yourself if it's too much or you just don't want to.)

So much textile stuff like that is only cheap because the labor at all steps is SO painfully undervalued. The finished product is made in the same places as the fabric and embellishments, and the labor is far from fairly compensated. It's really a mess. (There are also companies that sell things cheaply even though they don't turn a profit... because it freezes out competition.)

Oof, and import fees are another painful consideration! Though I'm glad that likely does give you a pretty good niche within the local community. I imagine there would be some interest. I don't know a lot directly, but my cousin did belly dancing, as did an ex co-worker, and my impression has been that putting together well-made, attractive costumes is something that a lot of dancers really enjoy. I would guess that paying for a higher-quality piece that fits nicely and provides some variety/fits their personal taste would be VERY much something people would pay a bit more for.

Well that's a bit of a relief! At least it's somewhat low-risk!

Date: 2024-02-18 05:14 am (UTC)From: [personal profile] mistressofmuses
mistressofmuses: Image of nebulae in the colors of the bi pride flag: pink, purple, and blue (Default)
Oh, I can understand that well. The Trumpsterfire years here were just... awful. And the awful hasn't quit, but those four years were a serious struggle. It certainly showed just how many awful people there are doing awful things with awful amounts of power. It's really hard to feel excited and imaginative and creative when facing that.

There's a book I've seen rec'd around my flist here by a couple people, Never Say You Can't Survive: How to get through hard times by making up stories. I haven't read it yet, but I am intending to sometime this year. It sounds like it's very much about that sort of "the world is terrible, how can I write when everything is fucked?" feeling.
It's not the sort of thing I usually read, but I'm wondering if it'll be helpful, ha.

I've seen a lot of troupes that do group choreography and have matching costumes for the group for each one... that seems like it'd get pricey, but if it works for them... Though that's a good point: an excuse to get some fancy new stuff? Sounds great!

Date: 2024-02-23 03:53 am (UTC)From: [personal profile] mistressofmuses
mistressofmuses: Image of nebulae in the colors of the bi pride flag: pink, purple, and blue (Default)
Yeah, that's a bit how I feel... I'm not sure what material it could cover that would be new information. Even so, knowing it apparently helped some friends regain some creative energy makes me want to give it a try. And maybe it did help untangle something for you and help you return to writing!

That's true - most troupes do seem to have a fairly limited number of group performances per year. And most of the dancers I knew also enjoyed being able to wear their costumes to things like Renaissance fairs or festivals and things. All the more reason I'd think people would be excited to find some high-quality pieces made in their size!

Thoughts

Date: 2024-02-14 06:23 am (UTC)From: [personal profile] ysabetwordsmith
ysabetwordsmith: Cartoon of me in Wordsmith persona (Default)
>> Well, the good news is that it wasn't a very long slump, but the bad news is that this is how long it's taken me to fall off the writing wagon and to no longer be working on my novel. I'm still writing, but I'm back on fanfic, doing a time-travel fix-it fic for Jin Guangyao.<<

What matters the most is writing. Maybe you'll come back to the novel later. But do consider why you abandoned it. Too little energy? Look for ways to gain more. Too little time? Throw something else off the wagon. Stuck on a plot point? Let it simmer a while, you may find a solution later.

>> I'm now belly dancing twice a week, which is lots of fun and has given me a new lease of life. <<

Yay!

>> But I continued to be frustrated that you could not get a nice coin belt of the right size for a plus size person, so I've started making them.<<

What the ...? That makes no sense. There are literally belly dance moves that skinny people cannot do. One of my teachers was like three times my size. So the garb usually covers plus sizes quite well. Maybe it's different on your side of the world. I'm glad you've started making your own though.

>> I can't imagine selling them for less than £15 just to pay for the material and trimmings, and then who's going to pay for that? <<

Some thoughts ...

* If there are NO vendors selling plus-size bellydance gear, then you have no competition. It doesn't matter if the skinny scarves are cheap because they won't fit your clientele. Oh, and the higher-end bellydance stuff? It does get extremely expensive and some people buy it.

* Look at prices on ordinary clothes. They routinely cost more for bigger garments because, yes, that takes more material.

* Think about ways to save money and materials in construction.

Can you find cheaper fabric? Could you buy cheap scarves or curtains at a thrift store and decorate them?

What about thrifted embellishments? I've seen people selling just the fancy bits cut out of old saris, because you have to remove all that stuff before cutting the rest down to sari ribbon or fluff to spin into yarn. So then they sell the sequins/mirrors/embroidery in box lots or by the pound. You can also get printed silk scraps in various sizes, where if a sari gets damaged, they just cut out the bad part and sell what's left as yardage on the cheap.

Could you buy bulk for scarf fabric and/or embellishments?

Do you have a sewing machine that does any fancy stitches or embroidery patterns? Most modern ones have at least few dozen such options. If so, you can put in metallic thread and decorate that way.

Consider giant craft sequins, they work great on bellydance garb. They are MUCH lighter than metal or embroidery, very flashy, and quiet. Because they're so big, they also look good spaced out. Plus they have a visual advantage over metal or glass: they come in holographics, which can be downright dazzling.

Another option is making your own fringe from yarn. You wrap a bunch of yarn around a square piece of cardboard, then cut the ends to make short bits of yarn. Spread the pieces of yarn along the edge of a scarf and just sew right over it. This works best with a wool or cotton scarf and matching yarn -- it won't work on very light synthetic fabric, and synthetic yarn frays into a mess.

The bigger the trim, the more it costs. That means you can often get something simple, like thin gold cord, a lot cheaper than wide ribbon or fringe. Put that thin piping around the hem and then an accent patch in the center or tassels on the corners.

You do not have to deck out the entire scarf. Look at a variety of styles and you will see different patterns. Some have only one row of fringe or coins on the bottom hem. Some have only tassels or other embellishments at the tips. Some have just a medallion in the middle. Coins don't have to be a solid thick line. You can space them out, singly (quiet) or in sets of 2-3 (so they chime) with an inch or more between them and thus use far fewer.

Because of this, sometimes you can find rectangular scarves with intermittent decorations where you can cut them between embellishments and sew in a piece of contrasting fabric or part of another scarf. Say you have a black scarf with gold embellishments, you cut it in the middle and insert a length of gold or gold-print fabric to make the scarf longer for a larger dancer. You could take a cheap scarf, add a cheap scrap, and sell it for only slightly more than the original skinny scarf.

I've made a lot of different garb for bellydance and other activities. Sometimes they didn't have a size small enough, other times they just didn't have what I wanted, and quite often I could make it cheaper myself. I'm a hippie, I can boho up almost anything.

Ideally, a seller should have a range of cheap, moderate, and premium items so a buyer can choose based on their budget.

Re: Thoughts

Date: 2024-02-14 08:10 pm (UTC)From: [personal profile] ysabetwordsmith
ysabetwordsmith: Cartoon of me in Wordsmith persona (Default)
>> I think it's just intimidating because I haven't written anything original in years and a novel is a long project. <<

That certainly isn't helping.

>> I feel so tired when I think about it. <<

Not a good sign. :(

>> And because I haven't fallen in love with any of the characters in it yet, I don't want to spend time in their company like I do with fandom characters.<<

Well, if you're not in love with them, probably your audience won't be either. If you're writing a story of idea, the characters aren't very important; but most stories nowadays are stories of character, where they are crucial.

I often start by building characters. I've got a basic character sheet that I use. If they went to college then I'll look up their major and minor, what classes they took, what clubs they were in. That says a lot about a person and what resources they have to handle problems. I look up settings too -- a house, an office building, a park, wherever the characters will be. So that helps me track how they are moving around in space.

I've been using the Writers Helping Writers books as loose parts. I use the Emotional Wound Thesaurus the most, but also the Positive and Negative trait ones. It helps make characters more interesting, and gives me a place to look for concrete ideas in case the prompt or inspiration doesn't come with that part.

>> I should write some short stuff in that universe to get me kick started, but for some reason I dread it.<<

Short stuff is certainly easier than long stuff. But if you're not loving it, why are you doing it? What would make you love it? Or would you love something else better?

Think about what you love, and why. Then think about how you can put that in your original work. When you come to a new canon, you don't love those characters yet, you fall in love with them as you watch or read. So what makes them attractive? It's not an individual. It's some trait or combination of traits that hooks your interest. Maybe you love characters who are all grit and no quit. Maybe you love the ones who weep beautifully. Maybe you love nerds who save the day. Whatever it is, it's in there somewhere.

One of the things I do is mine fanfic for ideas to load into my original canons -- the things people love so much that they'll make more of their own. The things I adore reading and writing. And a lot of time what I'm wanting to explore is "What would this motif look like if people didn't mess it up every time it appears?" So for instance, I've got a bunch of series with less-represented leads: women, asexual people, people of color, etc. I've got one where the superhero and the supervillain work out their issues and become a queer couple. And those are things that make me and my readers fall in love with characters.

>> And the third lady has a long wool winter scarf which she ties round her hips and calls it a day.<<

That reminds me, there's a style of Middle Eastern and Northern Indian woolwork that uses nearly neon colors embroidered over a cream or black background, and the edges are often decorated in tassels or pompoms. It's used in room screens, tapestries, pillows, vests, all kinds of stuff. Here I usually see it in international import stores. Oh, and stripes -- desert fabrics are often just striped in two or three colors, which is easy to find in wool by the yard. Then you put one embellishment at the end of each stripe of the same color, so you can space them out and it looks good; or you can alternate with a different embellishment on the other color. Wool can be too bulky on a small dancer but stands up very well on a large one.

>>It does grieve me that everyone else has this massive range of choices of beautiful sparkly and jingly scarves, and we have one choice or do it yourself.<<

That really sucks. >_<

But it's a great market opportunity in case someone does want to set up a big scarf company.

>> I have found some coin and sequin trim that is under £1 per yard - which really helps. And I've been scouring the charity shops for nice scarves and/or material of other sorts.<<

I forgot to mention one -- hit the Indian shops. Britain has a whole swath of Indian-British people, and in big enough cities, they put up sari shops. Saris and sari scarves are huge swaths of usually decorated fabric. Some types are made to a certain size but others are on bolts that you can have cut to length and hemmed. There are head scarves (usually square or triangular) and then the ones meant to drape over your shoulder that are long rectangles. And there are decorated dancing scarves because some Indian dances are related to Middle Eastern bellydance. YMMV in an Indian-British shop, but that's stuff I've seen in American ones.

>> Also I can get African wax print fabric for less than £1 a yard, which is not very authentically Arabic, but looks amazing and might be a bonus for any dancers out there of African heritage.<<

*laugh* If it's on or near the Silk Road, it's historically legit. Pretty much anything East African counts. West African would be a stretch, but some people would come up that side and hit the Mediterranean trade. Central or far South, not so much. Africa ties in, mostly North Africa rather than sub-Saharan Africa, because of overlaps in dance moves and dress modes. There is literally a "show off your embroidered dress" dance that spans Turkey and Egypt where the styles run to heavy embroidery, mirrors, etc. rather than flowy shimmery fabrics.

So if you have African-diaspora dancers, by all means look at African fabrics and dances for inspiration. Oh, and hairstyles! To keep it out of the way, put it up in a sculptured style; but to turn springy hair into something that will swing, use fine braids and flashy metal beads. Over here there's a whole branch of African-influenced bellydance where people looked up that stuff to incorporate. Very pretty.

>> I hadn't thought of using loose sequins, but that's a great idea, and there really are some lovely ones. The sari fabric is something I hadn't thought of either. I will look into that. Thank you! <<

I'm happy I could help. I'm enough of a hippie and a craft nerd that I can usually figure something out. And "use what you have" is very much in the tradition of bellydance.

Re: Thoughts

Date: 2024-02-18 04:56 am (UTC)From: [personal profile] ysabetwordsmith
ysabetwordsmith: Cartoon of me in Wordsmith persona (Default)
>> True. One of my problems, I think, is that I have been trying to write characters I don't feel a visceral sense of connection or interest in <<

That's not a good thing. If you're not having fun, it's going to show.

>> because I am choosing to write characters who get little representation in fiction out of a sense of duty and justice. <<

I like to write characters who get little representation because they interest me. That doesn't mean everyone has to do it.

>> If I was selfishly writing from the heart, cis men tend to be the characters I most want to write about. <<

If that's what floats your boat, go with it. What about other forms of diversity? Cis men who are ... black, British-Indian, gay, Jewish, kinky, etc.

>> Having said that, though, I don't tend to fall for original characters until I start writing them and they begin to reveal themselves to me in a more living way. <<

Yeah, that can happen. I get a lot of that from making character sheets in some series.

>> I have three characters for the book who I am fond enough of, and my best bet for actually activating them in my mind would be to write something for them - an interview or a short story for example. That would be the best way for me to find their voices. This long laborious process of trying to accrete interest in them is not untypical for me.<<

Those sound like useful things to write.

>>They tend to be more in the North of the country, so I'll keep an eye out when we go to visit Gran. <<

Shopping while visiting can be fun.

>> Facebook Marketplace seems to be a good place for people selling off their second hand ones though, so that's something :)

Also an excellent idea. So let's see, a sari is typically 4.5 to 8 meters long. For a big scarf, figure about 2 meters. You could get two scarves from one short sari, or four scarves from a long sari. If it has no embellishments or they're separate, you can just fold over the raw ends to hem. If it has running embellishments, then cover all the edges with something like bias tape in a contrasting color or a metallic.

Something else easy to make that works great with bellydancing is a sari wrap skirt. This is just two contrasting pieces of sari silk, which can be half-circles or rectangles, sewn together at the top with a long band so you can tie it. It's no harder to make a large size than a small size. They can be worn a zillion different ways.

>>Yes, wax print fabric originates (I think) from Central and West Africa, which makes it a little out of the area for Egyptian style bellydance, but honestly the outfits we wear nowadays are nowhere near authentic anyway, so why not toss a bit more into the fusion pot?<<

True.

>>Is that 'tribal fusion'? I have to admit I do love that style, especially the outfits. They look great!<<

Sometimes fusion, other times more specific.

The coolest fusion I've seen wasn't tribal at all YeeHawBibi was a western theme with everyone in cow print and cowboy fringe, and they were brilliant.

Date: 2024-02-14 01:39 pm (UTC)From: [personal profile] xancredible
xancredible: (Default)
From what I've seen in the comments, other people have already weighed in on the pricing of the belts. I think you could easily charge 20 pounds or more for one that is

a) unique
b) bespoke
c) handmade

Considering that the available options online, even the cheap ones, are terrible quality and not actually sized for plus size people, I'd rather buy something that actually fits me and comes in a style I like. Especially if you offer customisation as to fabric choices for example, you could charge more.

You could always put one or two up for sale and see if it finds a buyer and if not, then you'll know, but if they sell then you know there's a market for them.

Ask around your class or ask your teacher too whether they know someone who would like one and would be willing to pay 20-25 pounds for it.

Date: 2024-02-14 05:25 pm (UTC)From: [personal profile] watervole
watervole: (Default)
How I miss locks! Trying to plan a canal holiday, but currently fuzzed out with flu...

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